Sardar or Mona?

[robiszoo]

Hi All,

Within the Sangat there is always a battlefield somewhere on keeping or not keeping Kesh. I am interested what gay Sikhs think about the issue.
As i see many Sikh guys are struggling to find a wife because girls prefer clean shaven guys according to Bollywood trends so they cut their hair and get rid of their visual Sikh identity.
Same thing can be observed among gay Sikhs. I have a friend who was a Keshdhaari before but he felt like being ugly among gays and had little success with finding a partner so he became a Mona.
Life is not always easy for a Keshdhaari especially as a gay. In gay world looks and fashion trends are very important sometimes even more important than personal values so gay men are rushing to follow the trends and achieve success by attraction.
Is that a real success? Does it worth to throw away your heritage for getting the guy's attention and accommodate into his culture just to be accepted? Do you really want to be with someone who would have never been with you if you were wearing a dastar? Do you really want to be accepted by a guy who would never show up with a turbaned Sikh but proud of dating a clean shaven trendy exotic south Asian "beauty"?
I was raised up in western culture but i have no problem with turbaned guys. Just my opinion but i do not really find more masculine and more beautiful than a Sardar who is proud of his beard and turban. To be honest most Mona guys i do not find handsome and when i see them i always feel that something is missing especially if i saw them with pag and beard before.
I believe that human qualities and spiritual background are much more important for a good relationship than looks. Looks are indispensable for chemistry but not enough for more. Good guys takes more time to find but it may last longer to be with them.

I hope i did not hurt anybody's feelings. I did not mean to judge anyone just wanted to share my opinion which may not be mainstream. I picked up this subject because it is quite relevant among Sikhs and this is a Sikh discussion forum at the end of the day.
So what is your opinion about it?
How do you feel about being a Sardar, wearing beard and turban?
What does it have to do with maya and Sikhi?
How do you feel about seeing Sardars as fashion models and a turbaned Sikh on posters of Kenneth Cole's new fashion campaign? www.youtube.com/watch?v=r60pjTdsmj0

[irrational]

Guru Fateh,

I am a turbaned Sikh, however, this is a controversial and very difficult issue to resolve. Turban and beard are external and obvious indicators of a Sikh individual not his values. Pressures of living in a foreign land can either make one want to blend in and have a relatively easy time, or can make one more determined to hang on to everything that connects us with our heritage. This should not and must not be the only measure of an individual's values, beliefs and character. How do we know that just because a Sikh is wearing a turban he is better than another Sikh with no turban. Either of them can be a great human being or a jerk. It is rather easy to pass judgment, but one must not. I am sure there are plenty of decent Sikhs with cut hair and plenty of jerks wearing a turban. Now if some one cut their hair just for sex that is bad but, then again who is perfect and who am I to pass judgment. Every one of us does have good and bad within us.

The group is called "Sarbat" right? and bani says "Manas kee Jaat sabhe eko pehchanbo" (all human being are one / equal). To quote Baba Fareed, "Farida je tu akal Leateef taan kale likh na lekh. Apanre giriban me sir neeva kar dekh" (Fareed if you have some sense then do not commit sin and bad deeds, bow your head and look within yourself) and "Kaale mainde kappre kaala mainda wase. Gunhee bharaya mai firaan lok kehan darvesh" ( I wear black, my appearance is black and I am full of sin. yet they call me a saint)

There could be a beautiful "aatma" (being, conscience) in any one, even in the most wretched looking person. It is a matter of perspective. We are judged badly by the society even the ones we love, we as a group need to be even more conscious of this before passing judgment.

Surd

(Robi I haven,t had the time to write on problems Punjabi youth is facing today, most of my knowledge of that is 20 years old, but I will try)

[robiszoo]

Hello Surd,

I think you got me wrong.
The reason why i brought up this issue has nothing to do with judging anyone. Certainly i do not believe that someone is defenatelly a better person just because he wears a turban. I just wanted to start a conversation about a typical Sikh subject from a gay perspective.
I also added my opinion because i believe that someone who is from a turbaned Sikh family should not feel he has to get rid of the turban just because he is gay.
I think you are a good example that a Sardar can be successful as a gay man but i know other turbaned gays who are in a relationship.
At the end of the day it always has to be a personal choice being a Sardar or a Mona but still i would like to encourage people to keep their turban because sooner or later they will find those guys who will accept and love them the way they are.

[Preet]

I think being a mona or sardar is really an individual choice. Some people are proud of their turban and beard, it makes them who they are! So they have a choice and they excersize that choice. Whearas some people I know only have a beard and turban because they are forced by family to keep one, but if they had it their way they would cut their hair and beard. Sometimes people in this situation shave their beards into the latest styles, even going to the zero blade, so as to appear cool and hip, but they will never cut their hair because of family pressure. When I meet such individuals I know that they are caught in between the beliefs of their family and themselves. They can't go against their family so they keep their turban, but they also want to be themselves, so they express themselves in their latest beard styles. But in situations like this, the family should realize that they just can't control someone's choice, they should let them do what they feel comfortable with, I really feel sorry for the families in these situations and not the young men who are caught in this situation.

I personally believe religion is of the mind and spirit and not the body, so it doesn't matter if your a mona sikh or turbaned sikh, as long as you're a good sikh, one who embraces a positive and humanistic way of life.

[persuethetruth]

Well as a white guy I personally have been attracted to sardars in the past, but I sometimes feel my thinking is a bit niche, I'm non-scene, completely 100% out, non-camp whilst being a virgin...
Unfortunately the gay community appears to be very selfish and calculated, but sometimes you can't blame them. When you've been rejected by the world, what do you expect. Even gay guys that are out have to 'come out' which essentially implies that they have to wait and see whether they are accepted are rejected, which is a process that can really f*k you up in the head. Why should a person wait for acceptance or rejection?

Also the cutting the hair thing for gay guys, you have to take into account that most of us are either not explained to about homosexuality or either told it's a wrong/gross/chosen thing, yet being gay proves society wrong... this creates many questions about the rules/norms and boundaries that society places upon us and leads to rejection of many of these, hence keeping hair rejected..
Sorry for the tangent..

[persuethetruth]

I just watched the first 12 seconds of this video, samosa, and I have to say "Sikhism is a monotheistic religion" is such an attempt to be accepted by others. From my understanding Sikhism is monistic, why go out of your way to appease the westerners and be accepted when there is this beautiful concept of monism in sggs? I don't understand it..

[awesomesikh]

Guru Fateh Members,

This one is a very interesting thread indeed.

Turbaned or Non-Turbaned. I beleive everyone has a set of choices thoughts and beleifs.

Some people may just give up thier physical identity for being accepted socially...

But at the end of the day people would like you for the way you are and not for the way you look...

Im 25 yrs Turbaned/Sabat Soorat Sikh.It feels great to be a Singh and I never feel lost in the crowd.

Last but not the least . I cannot think of anything else for myself apart, from being a "Keshdari Sikh"

Regards
Gurjeev Singh

[robiszoo]

This funny video made by the Sikh Coalition tells you why Sikh people wear the Turban:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=omCpIHpXr8c

[Rebel Kid]

hey nice video
because of having short dykish hair im usually considered spoilt by some ppl frm our Sikh community . but hey, is it fair to judge anyone from their looks