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Post by robiszoo on Oct 29, 2007 9:46:07 GMT
Sat Sri Akal!
I think this website is partially to discuss the problems a gay Sikh person is facing in an everyday life. So this way we can help each other. Many people need encouragement and support so they won`t feel like left alone with their special problem. I think many gay Sikhs are not happy because they cannot accept themselves and they have no one to talk about it. They have a lot of fear and insecurity. They are also lonely and many times ashamed.
So please use this board for discussing the struggles most gay Sikh people going through!
I know there are many serious and important issues out there which are treated like a tabu.
For example many gay Sikhs are forced to get married by their parents so they are living an unhappy dishonest dual life with having a family and gay one night stands at the same time. Instead of being in a loving and fulfilling stable relationship they sacrifice their own lives for other people`s will. At the same time they are constantly liing to their families and risk their life with infecting them with STD-s if they are not careful enough. I am not judging these guys i just think this is very sad.
So please share your thoughts and experiences about this problem and if you have other issues please do not hesitate to come out with them! You do not need to tell your names or personal data.
Release your stress and help others by telling your story!
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Post by kaurageous on Nov 19, 2007 4:13:19 GMT
Well here i go..... I think one of the hardest and most draining things is when i battle with myself about what is right and wrong? and try to choose what path im going to take! The first path is easy in the short term because it involve me jus goin along with my parent and the asian way, getting married to a bloke, having kid and a family etc etc.......but it the long run i know i wont be happy with this. The second option is for me to choose the love of my life and risk loosing or at the least hurting & upsetting my family! how do u make that decision? either way im gunna br8k someone i loves heart? Yeah in the long run im sure ill be proper happy bt isn't it being jus more than a bit selfish? So far i jus try and avoid or put off thinking about this! but how long can i do that for?
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lady
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Post by lady on Nov 19, 2007 11:19:23 GMT
its hard when your in a relationship with someone and having to choose between your love and family is even more harder decision to make. family make out like its an obligation to get married have kids etc, they are only bothered about saving their own face within the community, they go on and talk about izzat, respect and all that bullshit. but living a lie is the worst thing a person can do?
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Post by robiszoo on Nov 19, 2007 20:29:34 GMT
This is a very tough issue. I have a friend who got married had children built a nice career and after 11 years he just had enough of being a good husband a good father and a good son at the same time satisfiing the whole family and making happy everybody except himself. One day in his heavyest moment he just went home and he told everything to his wife and to his parents so after 11 years of dreaming the whole family fell apart everybody was helplessly sad and all the hearts were broken. Everybody was blaming him not just because he was gay but because he was lying to everybody and at the end of the day he broke the life of his wife and his children. However the only thing he was trying to do is to make everybody happy with sacrificing his own happiness. He is not happier now. He quit his job and moved to another city. He lost his community his famiy and he cannot see his own children anymore. He still did not find the right guy to be his life partner. He is not practicing his religion anymore but he is dealing with feelings of shame guilt lonelyness and emptyness. He has to put himself together start again and build a comletelly new life. He is almost 40 now missing his beloved ones and just can not see his future... The consequence for me of this sad story is that we need to make the decisions in the right time before it is too late because people just can not be unhappy too long because it is going to hit back sooner or later. I know there are some people who can live a whole life unhappy but most of us are not like that. And anyway does it worth? What kind of life is that? Every people has the right to be happy in her/his life no matter what other people expect and being happy by being ourselves has nothing to do with selfishness. When others expecting us to live a life they imagined for us well, that is real selfishness and that has nothing to do with respect, love, caring, etc. Other thing i have learned from this story is that we can not be honest to other people if we are not honest to ourselves... Well here i go..... I think one of the hardest and most draining things is when i battle with myself about what is right and wrong? and try to choose what path im going to take! The first path is easy in the short term because it involve me jus goin along with my parent and the asian way, getting married to a bloke, having kid and a family etc etc.......but it the long run i know i wont be happy with this. The second option is for me to choose the love of my life and risk loosing or at the least hurting & upsetting my family! how do u make that decision? either way im gunna br8k someone i loves heart? Yeah in the long run im sure ill be proper happy bt isn't it being jus more than a bit selfish? So far i jus try and avoid or put off thinking about this! but how long can i do that for? |
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kuri
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Post by kuri on Nov 23, 2007 4:05:01 GMT
I've been struggling with the coming out issue for many many years now and I haven't gained any clarity - just increased frustration. I used to think I'd find a way around my feelings and marry straight like my parents want and expect.. but as i've grown older, I've realized that is near impossible. So now what? Coming out isn't an option, my parents mean too much.. and i know it's a matter of one or the other. I don't want to be like that 40 year old the pervious poster mentioned. The only solution i've been able to figure out is to marry someone who is also gay (of the opposite sex) and at the same time someone my parents would be proud of - we'd sort of be each other's salvation.. but even that seems to be too far fetched.. finding someone in the same mental state who wants the same thing out of life and out of our potential "relationship" seems to be impossible as well.
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amrit
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Post by amrit on Dec 31, 2007 10:41:54 GMT
Sat Sri Akal all.
This is a very difficult issue. I do feel sad to read the story that Robiszoo told. It just reminds me how we all have to account for our actions as individuals however well meant we may feel of not wanting to let our parents down. Hurting anyone is not right but when something we have no control over, our sexuality, presents itself in a way that is outside the people around us, then, we need to honour ourselves as fully as we can, not hide or deceive. I do appreciate how hard this is, but that is what we must do and only we know what is right for us for our circumstances, as all our stories are different. But, I would say that the common theme for us is a need to be gentle on ourselves, value ourselves wholly, including our sexuality. Others may not understand these issues and may be quite judgemental about it and we must try and not be affected by their negativity and instead cultivate a positive attitude towards our selves and our sexuality.
Negotiating being a gay male and a Sikh has been my story too. While my upbringing was in a fairly traditional family (some amritharis, keshtharis) I was some how able to not take the paths of hetero-marriage and ‘came out’ in my own way. I try and take the founding tenets of Sikhi to heart and that was that as long as I love that is all that matters (not who) - along with the actions of nam jap, wund-ke-shuk and kirth-karni. This has served me quite well but I have to be mindful of negatively and manage it carefully.
I tell myself that I get what I get in my life and lots of it has been very challenging, and that my task is to live it as honourably as I can. Nothing is perfect in this life and I can only do what I can.
With love ....
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dev
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Post by dev on Jan 2, 2008 8:44:48 GMT
wow, it's so great to be in a forum where I completely understand what others are going through - i hope it helps some of you to know that you're definately not alone!
i personally can't picture myself getting married to a straight woman. i think intentionally hurting someone else potentially for the rest of their life is more upsetting to me than coming out.. And when i really think about it, not everyone in my huge extended family are perfect (ie, cousins having interracial marriages, uncles divorcing, etc) so my not getting married isn't that big of a deal - i guess if you were the only child, it may be a bit different..
having said that, i do see myself ending up being in a relationship with a fellow sikh male.. maybe it's a cultural comfortability thing, i don't know -
sorry, if this is a bit scattered, it's 4am and i just finished a 75pg paper on Shakespeare's first tetralogy (yes, that's my excuse)
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Post by irrational on Apr 13, 2008 12:47:41 GMT
Guru Fateh,
These issues will not go away, probably never, a lot depends on individual situations. It is probably impossible to find a general solution. A lot can be achieved by trying to bring awareness to immediate family, a daunting task. One can not be uncompromising, on the other hand it is wrong to totally give in. Lot of Sikh gay individuals are able to compromise, I do not have numbers, however, significant numbers of married individuals are probably gay but have decided to live as bisexuals. I again stress that there are no such studies ever carried out on Sikh gay individuals, there is no concrete evidence. It is very important to be true to oneself and accept ones oneself for what one is this is the first step (a very difficult task for most of us) toward making educated and balanced decisions. Most of us at one stage feel guilty and selfish or even downright slimy. To get over that is a daunting task, most of us probably never completely overcome these feelings. However, once a certain degree of self acceptance is achieved, one has to asses individual situation. It is important to know that Waheguru is always with us, regardless of what the religious zealots or even our own dear ones say. I have as an individual decided that I will never get a public religious sanction. This is the point where solution almost always has to be individual specific.
I Have never discussed my situation with my parents, because I know that it will be counter productive. I am lucky to have a wife with great deal of understanding and a couple of close friends. Life is a compromise, and what compromises can and can not be made is again depend on the individual, it is very difficult to generalise. But if a compromise means living a lie, like getting married to another gay individual and just to please ones parents is obviously out. Similarly getting married to a straight individual and starting a family and being miserable is not an option. We all know the kind of disasters that can lead to. It may not be much but I hope I have contributed something positive.
Surd
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Preet
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Post by Preet on Apr 15, 2008 10:21:15 GMT
The major issue that I'm facing is about being honest, this may not be an issue only for gay/bi sikh men or women it's probably an an issue for people in general. The only reason I haven't further explored the bisexual thoughts that have been on my mind since the brief, random and abrupt experience I had with a family member as a late teenager is because I can't tell my family and loved ones what's on my mind, they would never understand or support my thoughts. And since I can't share my deepest thoughts with them, I'm afraid to explore these thoughts because I believe I wont be honest to myself by hiding things from them, I know I would constantly be living a lie and I just can't handle that thought. So this honesty debate keeps eating away at my head and hence for the past 8 years or so I haven't done anything about my bisexual thoughts. So that's the issue I'm facing, if any of you have been in a similar phase in your life, let me know how you went about dealing with things, dealing with things for yourself and for the important people around you.
Cheers, P
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Post by irrational on Apr 16, 2008 1:28:52 GMT
And since I can't share my deepest thoughts with them, I'm afraid to explore these thoughts because I believe I wont be honest to myself by hiding things from them, I know I would constantly be living a lie and I just can't handle that thought. So this honesty debate keeps eating away at my head and hence for the past 8 years or so I haven't done anything about my bisexual thoughts. So that's the issue I'm facing, if any of you have been in a similar phase in your life, let me know how you went about dealing with things, dealing with things for yourself and for the important people around you.
Preet,
There is a part of every human being has that must remain private it has nothing to do with honesty. I believe all of us have few things that no one else knows. Truth should be always known but not necessarily spoken no matter what, because it may hurt some one or create misunderstandings, if the person you are talking to may not understand. I have things (thoughts, feelings etc.) that no one else knows, not my parents, not my siblings and not even my wife. it is a must to have someone to talk to, however, it almost always are not your parents, when comes to private thoughts and certain experiences it can be rather disrupting to let parents or any one else know. That is not being dishonest, it is plain old discretion. As long as you are honest with yourself rest of it will usually fall in place. One does not talk about everything to everyone.
Surd
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Preet
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Post by Preet on Apr 16, 2008 7:52:04 GMT
Hey thanks for your advice, but ya there are many things in my life that I've kept from my parents, things that they don't need to know. But I have a completely open relationship with my two brothers, we share everything with each other, girlfriends, friends, career, life, love, relationships, religion, sports, partying etc etc. But with them I've never shared my bisexual thoughts because eventhough how urban and globalized they may be they won't understand my thoughts and feelings regarding this. They are the two most closest people in my life and yet i can't share this with them. The thought that I can't really share this with them is what's holding me back from pursuing a bisexual lifestyle because I feel that this is one of those important things in my life that if I don't share with them and pursue such a lifestyle and they find out about things on their own, our relationship will forever be soured, it will never be the same because I decieved them. They are not the kind of people who would enforce their views on me, but they would feel completely betrayed that I'm living such a lifestlye and I didn't tell them. But on the other hand if I do tell them my thoughts and feelings now, they wouldn't understand where I'm coming from and would discourage me from having such thoughts etc etc. So that's the real conundrum that i'm finding myself in, i just can't tell them and i know i can't lie to them either and that's what's been holding me back from acting upon my thoughts.
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Post by beautiful on Apr 18, 2008 3:03:04 GMT
Sat Siri Akal,
I just want to acknowledge all of the Gay and Lesbian Sikhs everywhere for the fearlessness with which we face our lives. It is not an easy thing to be Gay. Nor is it an easy thing to be a Sikh. Being a Gay Sikh requires a strength of character that very few people in this world posess. What a gift we have been given to be on such a path. Together we will lead this world to a more compassionate place simply by living our lives and being who we are. Where ever you are on your path, I salute your courage and thank you for being you. Truly the Guru lives in and through us. What a blessing to be Gay and Sikh! What opportunities we have to really live our dharma by confronting so much adversity even if that adversity is only our own internal struggles. Wahe Guru!
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Post by irrational on Apr 24, 2008 2:37:45 GMT
A write up on gay lifestyle and the Indian Law.
Interesting to note that gay lifestyle was not taboo in India, however, homophobia is something British brought to India.
Surd
UN body slams India on rights of gays
24 Apr 2008, 0334 hrs IST,Dhananjay Mahapatra,TNN
NEW DELHI: India faced intense questioning from the international community on homosexuality and the widening gap between rich and poor at a recent meeting of the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva.
It termed the provision in Indian Penal Code making "unnatural sex" an offence as a legacy of the British and countered the allegation of widening rich-poor gap by citing the Centre's decision to waive farm loans to the tune of Rs 60,000 crore — an example of many efforts to make growth inclusive.
The Swedish delegation questioned India on homosexuality and was concerned that it was still considered an offence in the country.
Replying to the query, solicitor general of India G E Vahanvati went back in history and said, "In the early 19th century, the English frowned on homosexuality. There are historical reports that various people came to India to take advantage of its more liberal atomosphere with regard to different kinds of sexual conduct.
Some of them, in fact, joined the Army and as Army officers they were more privileged than ordinary people." To stop this, the British inserted Section 377 in Indian Penal Code — the concept of sexual offences against the order of nature, essentially a western concept, which has remained in the penal laws for years.
"Homosexuality, as such, is not defined in Indian Penal Code. But, it will be a matter of great argument whether it is against the order of nature," Vahanvati said.
He also underlined the efforts of an NGO — Naz Foundation — to challenge the constitutional validity of Section 377 of IPC and told the conference how the Supreme Court saw merit in the PIL and has asked the Delhi High Court to adjudicate the matter.
However, he did not forget to mention the report of the Law Commission of India on homosexuality. The commission had stated that Indian society did not consider homosexuality an acceptable form of behaviour, Vahanvati said and requested the international community to await the outcome of the judicial scrutiny.
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